Attendees: 43 Members of the Public 2 Local Councillors and 11 Samaritans
Nigel, from the North London Samaritans (NLS), opened the meeting and gave a brief history of the ‘Tin Tabernacle’, pointing out that the Samaritans owned it and describing briefly the two previous unsuccessful planning applications. He explained that the hall had been decommissioned since January 2012. NLS had sold their former premises in Queens Road and are trying to ring-fence the proceeds for the future development of the ‘Tabernacle’ site. At present, NLS are having to rent a property for their operation in Warwick Road at considerable cost per month. He emphasised that the branch is completely self-financing. He then introduced the project architect, Paul Fletcher, and the community artist, David Emmanuel Noel.
Paul highlighted the appalling condition of the building – asbestos/zero insulation/single glazing/rotten timbers/holes in the walls etc., and explained the proposed plan to carefully ‘unpeel’ the structure and rebuild on its original frame using sympathetic modern materials to recreate the visual aesthetic in a sustainable way. He showed pictures of the hall in its present state and the initial design concepts on the table for discussion.
David talked about his work as a community street artist and the possibility of engaging all interested community parties in creating a mural of local relevance on the wall next to the alleyway. This was illustrated by a project he had undertaken in New York with a group of local young people.
Questions/Comments and Answers:
Q: Question
A: Answer
C: Comment
R: Response
Q: Is there a strategy to use the Hall to raise money?
A: Yes. It will be a rentable space for activities that people in the local community want to do. It will be these funds that enable the NLS to survive for the future.
Q: Is there a danger that you will build the Samaritans facility prior to building the Hall and that the Hall itself might not be completed?
A: No. A single planning application will be submitted and the two elements of the project cannot be separated (i.e. no NLS facility without a Hall which is, apart from anything else, an essential part of NLS operations).
Q: Use of the Hall – would it be a drop-in centre which would result in undesirable people loitering around the area?
A: No. NLS have been receiving visitors between 9.00 am and 5.00 pm (i.e. daylight hours only and when the branch is staffed) in the old centre in Queen’s Road since 1974 and would continue this policy at the new Branch. There have been no problems with this and the numbers of visitors were low. It is a fundamental demand of all Samaritan branches, which NLS cannot currently comply with due to the rented facility.
Q: Members of the community had been trying to get security cameras in the area since 1998 with no success. Did the plans include security cameras? Concern was expressed about unsociable groups and individuals, mainly drinking alcohol, who use the alleyway at night, leaving behind beer cans, etc.
A: Should security cameras be needed they would be installed as part of the submitted design and there would be appropriate lighting within the site. The boundary walls will be designed in a way that they could not be used as seating or for unsociable gatherings. The whole project will be designed in accordance with ‘Secure by Design’ principles (standards approved by the police and security services nationally).
C: Someone fairly new to the area pointed out that the ‘Tin Tabernacle’ is a local landmark and unique in an area with few distinctive buildings. She was keen that it should not be changed.
Q: What about the covenants on the use of the building?
A: None ofthe covenants on the use of the building, set out on the land when it was first developed, remain valid. This was confirmed when the Samaritans bought the property back in the 1970s.
C: Regarding the drinkers – if you have a neglected area with disused buildings it attracts drinkers – if you regenerate the area these problems tend to go away and the dynamic of the area changes.
R: David pointed out that murals or street-art can have a very positive impact on an area as it offers the community ‘ownership’ and engagement. At the moment – people were breaking into the chain link fence and even into the Hall. The proposed structure would create security for the rear gardens along this side of the street and make access to undesirables much more difficult.
C: Murals lower the tone of an area and a mural would cause the building to lose its dignity.
R: It would depend on your definition of a mural – the positive impact from other examples were highlighted in terms of community ownership and the prevention of unwanted graffiti.
Q: What had Shaftesbury Hall been used for in the past?
A: The land was purchased in 1848 and the Hall was built as a chapel for railway workers. It was later leased to the ‘Temperance Society’ and was purchased by the Samaritans in the 1970’s. In those days the Samaritans were a very discreet, private charity so little was known of their activities. Public access to the hall was strictly limited and for almost the past 40 years, the sole users of the hall have been the Samaritans.
C: People remembered the Hall being used in the 60’s for various community activities and in the 30’s for dancing classes.
Q: In the last planning application you said that you would have not had to pay for your space but now you will be spending £400,000.
A: The previous planning applications were lead by developers. Their offer was to build a facility for the Samaritans on a no-cost basis. To do this they needed to recoup their costs by including residential development on the site. It was from the sale of those properties that the developer would make their money. This was a compromise that the Samaritans have been obliged to give due consideration to.
Q: What about the impact of noise that the building might create?
A: The building design will necessarily incorporate modern materials for sound, light and heat insulation – fundamental to this whole process, NLS require peace and quiet for their operations. This is of paramount importance.
Q: What were Samaritans doing about the impact of the building on the parking problems in the area? This would be a big concern if the Hall is to be rented out and more people will be coming into the area.
A: NLS will do all they can to discourage people from arriving by car – to the extent that those wishing to hire the facility will be encouraged not to do so. The key to the success of the NLS centre is the wealth of excellent public transport links in the area and there would be a secure bicycle park provided. The aim is that the local community will use the Hall and the need to travel by car would be negated. (The Samaritans have been using the Hall and the centre on Queens Road for almost 40 years without causing any significant parking problems. However, NLS take the communities’ concerns very seriously and it is hoped that this will be an on-going process of discussion and debate whereby problems of whatever nature, should they arise, can be addressed in the best way possible for the mutual satisfaction of everyone.)
C: A community group called ‘128’ has been set up in Middleton Road and no-one had come by car and no parking problems have been created.
C: Speaker felt that everyone’s opinions matter even if we don’t always agree with them.
Q: Do you have a model for generating income? Some people won’t have the money to pay high rents or any rent.
A: The aim is to design the building in such a way as to keep the running costs to a minimum. NLS will be endeavouring only to cover our operating costs and will not be in the business of making profits. Access to the Hall will not solely be limited to the payment of money, NLS hope to be able to offer facilities in return for volunteer help of a mutually beneficial nature.
Q: What is the age range of your callers?
A: NLS (and the whole Samaritan movement)encourage anyone who is in distress, despair or who has suicidal thoughts and feelings to call us irrespective of their age.
Q: Will there be flexibility on Samaritans part as to the design? Are you open to changing any of it?
A: Yes. If there are robust objections to the proposed design, due consideration will be given to any changes that might be proposed with the proviso that these do not compromise the fundamental operational needs of NLS.
Q: Is it within the scope of the consultation, for example, could the wall be set back to give more space in the alleyway?
A: The garden is an important part of the design – both for NLS operations and to reflect the residential nature of the adjacent houses. NLS volunteers work under extreme pressure and the garden will provide a place for them to relax and offer a pleasant outlook. To create such a space along the alleyway side of the building would be to open this to abuse and possibly engender exactly what many of the concerns have been trying to avoid. The existing architecture along the alleyway all abuts the line of the path, offering the security already mentioned.
C: Having hated the last two planning applications, I like this proposal as long as you look after the building and its environs.
C: Most people in the local residents’ association are happy with your proposal but are very worried about parking problems and noise from, for example, parties and late night events.
R: NLS have no desire to upset our neighbours or the wider community – we wish to work with you. The use of the Hall will be under NLS control, working (we hope) in collaboration with neighbours and local community groups. Above all NLS need relative peace and quiet for our principle operations.
Q: Will the Hall retain its name: Shaftesbury Hall or Tin Tabernacle.
A: NLS have no plans to change the name of Shaftesbury Hall. The ‘Tin Tabernacle’ has only ever been a colloquial nickname.
Q: What is the function of Samaritans?
A: Samaritans are available 24 hours a day to provide confidential emotional support for people who are experiencing feelings of distress or despair, including those which may lead to suicide. The NLS branch is open only when we have volunteers available. Callers are offered an environment in which to explore their feelings and thoughts anonymously, confidentially and without judgement.
Q: What is the timescale of the operation?
A: If we get planning permission we need to raise what we currently estimate to be about £150,000. We already have £250,000 from the sale of our Queen’s Road property. We have already been lucky enough to have received a generous donation from one of our ex-volunteers. (The original £750 donation in her will was increased to £15,000 when the family heard of the proposals for the new Hall). Once the money is raised the development ought to take no more than 12 to 15 months.
Q: Speaker has been running the local campaign against a Waste Production Unit. Would Samaritans welcome help with leafleting etc.?
A: Yes - very much so, thank you.
Q: How are you going to raise the money?
A: Thereare currently three main areas to concentrate on: with the community backing the project it is possible we may secure ‘Big Lottery’ funding; NLS hope to encouragelocal businesses to engage with very specific elements of the development (computers, kitchen equipment, seating, etc.,) and then local community fundraising events. NLS are open to every possible option and idea to get the approved project up and running.
Q: Can you put in a planning application if you don’t yet have all the money?
A: Yes. NLS own the land and the property – submission of the planning application will not be delayed by the lack of funds. To gain planning approval will hopefully enable NLS to secure the necessary funds more readily.
Q: If you got the planning application is there any chance you would sell it on to another developer?
A: The planning submission that will be made will be very specific – i.e. for the hall and the NLS centre. No developer would find this an attractive proposition as there is no money to be made from it. It is an application that we hope will benefit NLS and the community alone. To gain planning permission for any alternative development would require a very different application.
C: I am still very, very concerned about the potential parking problems you will create and you do not seem to be taking my concern seriously.
R: NLS will do everything possible to try to ameliorate the perceived problem and, hopefully, work together with you. If we are able to secure planning permission for the project as outlined then, hopefully, we can start to work together on how we manage the Hall for the community and its uses.
Q: What is your target date for the planning application?
A: Early Autumn 2013.
Q: Have you allowed time for the removal of the asbestos?
A: Yes. NLS have already commissioned intrusive surveys on the existing hall structure. Due process will be followed in accordance with all national building rules and regulations to ensure this project is completed appropriately. NLS will not ‘cut any corners’ in the building process.
Q: Do you have any idea how you are going to run the Hall?
A: The running of the Hall will be the sole responsibility of NLS, but hopefully in collaboration with interested members of the local community. The NLS branch Committee are responsible for all operational matters (having run our charity shop for more than 20 years) and this process will continue with a dedicated volunteer in charge of overseeing hall operations and management.
Q: Who uses the ‘Call Centre’?
A: It used to be mainly people from the North London area but now calls can be taken from people from anywhere in the country (or possibly internationally). We do still have many people who call from the local boroughs.
C: It was suggested that a show of hands be taken from the audience to indicate initial approval in principle, or otherwise, of the conceptual ideas proposed during the meeting.
R: The meeting finished with the majority show of hands in favour of rebuilding the ‘Tin Tabernacle’, retaining its spirit, providing a Hall for the use of the Community, a call centre space for the North London Samaritans and improving the appearance of the walkway between the Hall and the railway.
The meeting closed at 21.30 hours with thanks to all those attending.
-- Edited by North London Samaritans on Saturday 13th of July 2013 05:16:49 AM
